A Meandering Conversation That Begins with Comic Books and Ends with Gordon Bombay

This is the first in what we envision to be a recurring series of posts, where my dude Eric Ling and I exchange emails and shoot the breeze on whatever topic we feel like. First up, a subject near and dear to my heart: comic books.

We earnestly expect you be entertained, enlightened, elucidated, etc. by our email exchange.

ERIC: I was having dinner with my cousins the other day, and my cousin's four-year old son was wearing a shirt with Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, and the Flash on it. So that led to me to ask his dad (my cousin) if he (the four-year old) wanted to see The Avengers. My cousin said his son wanted to see it, but he wouldn’t take him since there's violence and scary moments - at least for a four-year old. I then brought up the notion that Marvel and DC do market their characters/superheroes and toys to kids. Yet they all deal with violence in one form of capacity or another. How does a parent handle that? For instance, my cousin's son got a Thor hammer as a gift. It's a toy, but it's also a fake weapon.

My cousin didn't really answer the question of how he handles the violence with comic book characters in regards to his son, but just said he didn't like it too much. I just found it interesting that Marvel and DC sell their superhero products to kids. However, there's violence. Yes, fantasy violence, but still. I'm not a parent, so I don't know how I would handle the situation. I'm just intrigued by the topic.

As a comic book connoisseur, I'm sure you would want to pass on your love for comics to your kids. At what age do you begin, though? How do you get them interested in these superheroes, but make sure they don't get influenced by the "violence" that's related to these characters?

DRU: The funny thing is (or sad thing, if you're a big comics fan) is that most of Marvel’s and DC’s comics today aren't really suitable for kids. Hell, most of them aren't suitable for adults or discerning readers of any age, either. Wokka wokka wokka.

I hate to make such a blanket statement; however, it's really the parents' job to monitor what their kids are consuming, and I would certainly be hesitant to hand over any random current Marvel/DC book to a four-year old without reading through it first. When I was a kid, I knew about Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, the X-Men, and those guys, but my parents didn't allow me to own a comic book until I was seven years old, in the second grade. They bought me an issue of X-Men Classic at the old Waldenbooks at Stonestown. Remember bookstores? Remember when bookstores used to sell individual comic book issues? Man, we're aging.

But really, I don't see much harm in just exposing little kids to Marvel/DC stuff. I mean, kids today watch cartoons and play videogames (or tablet/smartphone games) with plenty of violence, of varying degrees of realism. I don't see a point in trying to shield a kid from society and culture as a whole. Giving a kid a toy Mjolnir isn't really the worse thing you could do, as a parent. There are certainly worse things kids can be exposed to on television and on the Internet.

When I worked at the elementary school, I definitely shared my love of comics to the kids. I had a range of kids from first through fifth grade. I'd give comics out as prizes occasionally, and I had a stockpile of comics in our little afterschool program "library." The thing was, I'd read each comic before bringing it to school. I definitely was very conscious about ensuring the kid-friendliness of whatever I brought to share with them. I didn't bring anything that was overly violent or featured much blood. I didn't bring anything that had any curse words, not even a single "damn." And I avoided anything where the female characters had super large bazooms. Still, I think what I did bring was enough to get the kids interested in reading. I brought stuff that wasn't Marvel/DC, like Owly or Calvin and Hobbes or Bone. There's a variety of comics out there that can work as "gateway drugs," so to speak.

Superhero comic books shaped me as a youth. I learned a lot about justice, the law, and right and wrong from reading comics. I learned a lot about power and responsibility. Superhero comic books really can teach a young mind those things.There is value in those for children. (There's also a lot of rubbish out there that can rot a child's mind just as badly as any lousy TV show or cheap portable videogame.) But if I ever get married and have a kid, I'd definitely teach her to appreciate the joys of comic books. I feel like I'd have an advantage since I'm already pretty knowledgeable about comics and that world. My parents had no idea what the hell they were buying me when I was a kid.

But I turned out fine, didn't I?

ERIC: Kids these days won't even know what a bookstore is when they grow up. Will they even know what a book is?

You're right. There's pretty much a degree of violence in everything these days. Even Looney Tunes had violence, I think. It's just part of life, but again it is the parents' job to monitor what their kids are consuming. (But were the parents of your afterschool kids able to monitor the comics you were giving to their kids?) I guess it takes a lot of faith from parents when their kids are away - a bit of trust in others.  All this, though, touches on nature/nurture and psychology or child development issues.  

Let's get back to comics. Maybe you can do a list of comic recommendations for certain age groups, demographics, or even personalities. What comic book or characters would you recommend for young boys? Or even young girls? I would want to empower young girls by showing them Elektra: Assassin, but I think it would be too violent or even hard to understand. It is one of the greatest comic books of all time, and probably the G.O.A.T. of storylines centered on a female protagonist.

DRU: Even though print is dying, I think we're still a couple of generations away from seeing it disappear altogether. Kids in the future might not know what a real bookstore is, but they'll probably have Amazon or iTunes or some other virtual bookstore at their fingertips. One would hope that in the future, when every kid in elementary school is equipped with a tablet that contains the entire summation of human knowledge, one of their world history apps will teach them that in the old days, people actually used paper to print physical books.

I doubt the parents of my elementary school kids really paid much attention to the comics I was feeding the kids. I think part of it was a matter of trust, and part of it was a matter of apathy. Maybe in some cases, it was cultural. But I never had anyone complain to me. If anything, parents thanked me for providing their kids with literary material that kept 'em busy for hours. I gave this one kid a Dark Horse Indiana Jones Omnibus (those things are thick!) and his mom was so grateful to me for giving it to him. The kid was kind of a boisterous type (to put it generously) and I think that comic kept him calm for hours. I remember when I was his age, I got massive mileage out of a simple 22-page issue, so I can only imagine how much entertainment he got from that 300+ page behemoth.

I feel like I always get caught with my pants down whenever someone asks me for comic book recommendations. I never know where to start. I guess when it comes to comics for kids, the main thing I remember from when I was a kid is how much I disdained comics that were aimed at kids, especially watered-down superhero comics. Kids, when they reach a certain age, don't want stuff that talks down to them. There's a lot of quality comics out there that are rightfully appropriate for all audiences. I could easily come up with a giant list, but for now I'll just recommend Jeff Smith's magnum opus, Bone. Go read it, Eric! All the cool kids have read it.

Also, even though we know your talk about Elektra: Assassin is all bull, you're surprisingly accurate. I can't really think of a whole lot of genuinely great superhero comics that feature a female title character. The ones that come to mind immediately are Alias (not at all related to that Jennifer Garner show), Promethea, and this pair of Black Widow miniseries written by Richard K. Morgan. (None of which, by the way, would be appropriate for a nine-year old girl.) Talk to Albert and I bet he'll complain about how there's never been a good extended run on Wonder Woman.

ERIC: Now that I think about it, at least you were getting your elementary school kids to read in the first place.  Maybe I was just being too cynical.

I was pondering why there are a lack of female protagonists in comic books. Look, maybe there need to be more positive, strong female superheroes for girls. Actually, let me rephrase that. Maybe the ones that already exist need to be marketed more. As we know, everything is mainly about money these days. As Method Man once rapped, "Cash rules everything around me." 

My Spider-sense tells me most comic book readers are male. So trying to target girls with positive female superheroes might sound great, but is it going to make money? How many girls would go and read comics if there were more female leads? Would guys read more comics with strong female leads?

This artistic medium is one of many male-dominated ones. Heck, even when a strong female character is placed at the forefront, there's usually a sexual element involved (think Lara Croft, Tomb Raider). As I do not read comics religiously, I could be terribly wrong about this. Overall, though, we just live in a society where men are usually cast in the leading role.

I better stop myself before I make remarks I will regret.

Speaking of female comic book readers, why do I feel most of them are probably also cosplayers? 

DRU: You mean you don’t regret that last question about cosplay?

Yeah, I developed my reading skills through comics, so I figured the kids could do a whole lot worse than the stuff I was handing out to 'em. Funny thing is, a lot of the girls were just as into the superhero comics as the boys were. And I don't think I really had a whole lot of comics with female leads.

I think part of it had to do with the age they were at. Most of them didn't really think about social implications or anything like that; they just wanted something entertaining and fun. Of course, like you said, the majority of comics readers are male, and comics tend to marketed towards males. That's why you see all these female characters drawn with big boobs and round butts, wearing skimpy clothes and everything.

I don't personally know any women our age who read comics, but I'd imagine one reason they tend to stay away is because of how unappealing it is to look at hypersexualized artwork like you'd find in any random Top Cow book.

ERIC: As long as it's interesting and entertaining, I guess kids - boys or girls - will dig it. You make a good point, though. At such a young age, the girls probably didn't think of social implications. In fact, I'm the one who assumed they wouldn't like comics, superhero comics. In a way, I'm perpetuating gender stereotypes. I hate myself.

Do girls suddenly realize at a certain age, "Hey, I shouldn't really be into comics?"  Who do we blame? The media?

By the way, I should add Sue Storm (the Invisible Woman of the Fantastic Four) as another strong female comic book character.

Of course, one of the biggest cosplay festivals is happening now: Comic-con. Whether it's girls or guys, I find cosplay funny. Actually, cosplay is one of those things that defines a comic book convention. It makes Comic-con more than just an actual comic book convention (besides all the movie panels, Hollywood hype, and videogame companies).

But if one is going to do cosplay, he or she has to go all out. Nothing that would make people shudder.  Well, some costumes are so bad they’re funny (like the Street Fighter movie starring Jean-Claude Van Damme). 

I always look forward to your annual "Yet another reason why I am not down with cosplay. At all." exhibits.

DRU: Hey, ideally, as long as something is interesting and entertaining (and, hopefully, GOOD), I would hope that anyone - boy, girl, man, or woman - would be able to enjoy it.

Here's the thing. If I'm a parent and I want to brainwash my daughter into loving comics, I wouldn't start with something that just happens to have a female lead. It'd have to be good, first and foremost. That's more important. I wouldn’t give her a Witchblade comic.

And hey now, let's not compare Street Fighter: The Movie to cosplay. That movie is just good. There's nothing bad about it! "Bah-sone! Ah'm gonna keeck chor ass SO hard... that the next Bison whannabe... isgonnaFEELit."

Also: "Have you lost your mind?" "No, but choove lost chor balls."

C'mon, man, even if those lines are unintentionally comedic, they're still comedic. There's something to be appreciated about things that can make you laugh. Cosplay doesn't make laugh. It makes me fear for our future.

ERIC: I may need to rewatch Street Fighter. There is no movie quite like it. Unintentional comedy at its finest, with JCVD still near his prime. If I see the movie again, I just might laugh at every part because I feel like I’d have to.

On another note, a commenter on the Grantland Mighty Ducks USA Basketball comparison made a good point. I never thought about it before: How did the team get away with replacing their Team USA jerseys with Ducks jerseys? They're representing the country! Seems like an unpatriotic move to me.  "Yeah, we're losing and let's put on these Ducks jerseys because this Team USA thing isn't working for us!”

WTF?  Did I miss something in that movie? What would justify the move? If any American athlete had the audacity to pull the same stunt to win a gold medal, they still would be crucified.  

Regardless, I still love The Mighty Ducks 2. I learned Greenland was ice and Iceland was green.

DRU: You have to love any piece of fiction that teaches you practical, applicable, real-world knowledge.